Down to the final two: A2 vs. AV500...

[Gators300]

I had previously also considered the Zen Vision, (and the M) mainly for the Vision's higher resolution. However due to the small viewing angle and lack of recording feature, I have eliminated the Creative products. Now I am facing a much harder decision.

The AV500 is intriguing to me for a number of reasons, first, there are 30, 60, (go check, they exist) and 100GB iterations. The 30GB limit on the A2 is a killer and will limit the device to mostly video only for me should I choose to get it. The AV500 also has the same resolution and 262K color display, (though maybe not as bright as the A2) so it's a wash there. The recording feature is a big deal to me though. I know that once a file gets over 2GB's when recording the file is stopped and a new one starts. Is this the same with the A2? The attachable dongle seems like a pain for the AV500 as well.

I have also heard that the AV500 yields better recording results, but I know recent firmware upgrades to the Cowon have improved the recording quality, so I don't know if this is still true. I am assuming the Cowon has better audio quality, though with the smallish hard drive I won't have much music on it.

The Cowon seems to also have the upper hand in the codecs department, though I don't mind encoding movies and video files. Battery life, I have heard, is about 6 hours on the AV500 and 8 or so on the Cowon. As far as I am concerned though, since the AV500 has a user-replaceable battery, I can get another one, so battery life is not important.

Unfortunately I will not have the opportunity to use either of them before purchase, so I am relying on those of you who have or have used these players. Personal preference is fine, and if you favor one or the other, I would just like to know why. Even looks is a good reason at this point. I just can't decide. The 100GB option is tempting, but I really like the firmware updates for the A2 as well as the sleek look. The AV500 looks nice to me as well though, (I love the brushed metal/industrial look).

Again, any help would be appreciated. I am obviously aware of the bias here:bigsmile:

Thanks!

Chris

[epaludo]

I think that you're more for the AV500 than for the A2.
AV500 6 hours for videos? I don't think so. Maybe 4,5 hours max.
The A2 has a really good stereo micro speakers. Louder then the AV500 mono speaker.
Of course that the 100 gigs archos is tempting, but if you have another MP3 player you could use the 30 gigs (A2 or AV500) for mainly videos - that's what i do.
About the beauty of the players it's a personal thing, but come on ... the A2 is 100 times sexier than the AV500 ... :bigthumbs
With the last A2 firmware upgrade (1.76) you can convert documents (PDF, DOC, XLS, PPT, ...) with the mTrans software to view them on the player - it's a really good feature.
There is subtitle support on the A2. There is for the AV500 either?
I have both players in my hands when i was at the store for getting one. The A2 really looks more attractive.
And it's cheaper.
The choice is up to you, but definetly i would go for the Cowon A2 ... :bigsmile:

[MCSmarties]

As you expected, people on this forum will be biased - including me.
Honestly, I think that the A2 simply blows the AV500 out of the water! :rock:

But let me try to answer your questions / concerns objectively.

- HD space.
The question you should ask yourself is: how long will you be away from your computer at a time?
Sure, 30GB doesn't look like all that much. I was very hesitant about that point before buying my A2.
Well, it's not that big of a deal really. On a daily use, I really don't need to carry around that much content.
Going on a long trip is a different thing, true, but even then I found 30GB were enough with some sensible management.
I went on a month-long trip, mostly away from a computer and took about 1200 pictures with my digital camera in that time.
Stored them all on my A2. When I ran out of space, I simply deleted a movie that I had already watched...

- Screen quality
I have seen both the AV500 and the A2 screens so I speak of first-hand experience.
The AV500 is VERY bright (almost too bright for my taste) but more importantly, it looks really fragile!
If you (gently!) push on the LCD with your finger, it actually disturbs the crystals... :woh:
The A2 has a rock-solid plastic plate. Sure, you lose a *little* brightness but do you really want to carry around a fragile screen on a daily basis?
I couldn't tell a difference between the color quality though.

- Recording
OK, I have never used the recording feature of my A2 yet, even though it was originally a "key" requirement for a PMP on my list.
Why? Well think about it: you can't carry around a PMP with you AND have it sit at home recording a show at the same time!
And if you're home already, why not watch the show directly on your TV or record it with your TiVO or VCR...?
As for movies, ripping and encoding DVDs will always give you MUCH better quality than recording them directly. So really, why bother!

- Removable battery
True, you cannot remove the battery of the A2. But it lasts much longer than the AV500.
Also, I guess you could always get a 3rd party external battery pack if you really need that juice.
As for replacing the battery if it ever dies... well, it *seems* that it's not all that hard to open the A2 and remove the battery.
Cowon would of course replace it for you, for a fee. But anyway, how long do you expect your PMP to last you?
Come the day your battery dies (for the sake of argument, let's say maybe 5 years down the road)
are you sure you won't rather buy the latest new gadget anyway...?

There are a few other key aspects that you have not mentioned in your post.

- Key/value for money
Depending on where you live, the A2 will be MUCH cheaper (or at worst, about equally priced) to the AV500.
It however also comes already with a pleather case and a battery that lasts significantly longer than the one in the AV500.
If you want to buy the AV500 you need to factor in the cost of a case, of an extra battery...

- Portability (TV connections)
To connect the A2 to your TV (for recording or TV-out) all you need is a cable.
In contrast, you have to carry around a whole pod with your AV500
(and it's definitely more complicated to connect than the A2).

Finally, you briefly mention firmware updates but maybe you don't realize how big of a difference there really is.
Go to archos.com and look at the firmware update history. Do the same on iaudio.com. No further comments!

I won't even mention all the features the A2 has and the AV500 lacks. OK, maybe I will after all. From the top of my head (without much thinking):
Multitasking, TXT, subtitles, radio, DMB (if you live in Korea), about three times the number of codecs... and since firmware 1.76, here come
DOC, PDF, PPT, XLS, whatever you want! (after converting to CSD first)

Again, yes I am biased but I would honestly recommend the A2 over the AV500.
5 months back when I bought mine, I was REALLY torn between the two players (or even waiting for Digital Cube's iStation V43).
Yes, I ended up with the A2 but it was a pretty narrow decision. Today, I can't believe how lucky I was to pick the A2!!

In the end though, it's your own choice of course... good luck with your purchase, whatever it is in the end!

PS: About the "slick look"... meh. I couldn't care less about the look. The player will usually be in a protective case anyway, so what's the point.
As long as it's solid and ergonomically designed, I'm happy. IMO what's in it is far more important than what it looks like!

PPS: Oh yeah, Cowon products have only the best audio quality of any portable player...
If you go to iaudio.com you'll see that audio quality is VERY important to them. They have a whole section devoted to it!

[kaptaink]

Hi dude
I have had my A2 for 2 months now, and I am literally in love with it.
I am watching videos and listening to my music everyday in london tube, and it's fantastic.

I have been reading every possible review on the internet before my last trip to HK, where I knew I would buy wheter the A2 or the AV500. Even in the store, I did not know what to choose.

Pros and cons, from the top of my head :

A2 :
compatible with smi and srt subs (crucial if you want to watch US TV series like me)
Much Better Battery life
Radio
No need of dock
compatible with flac, ogg
sounds truely great
new firmware every 2 weeks with really significant improvements

AV500
smaller
lighter
exists with 60 and 100GB hard drive
removable battery
ID3 tag navigation
remote

You do the math
My math :
subs are too important
battery life is too important
size and weight are not a major problem
File/Tree navigation works great, no prob.

I am so happy with my A2, and I could not recommend it more.
They are both great beasts anyway
Stephane

[dasreich]

A constant companion on the Singapore Tube. 4GB + for a 26 esp anime.
Good battery life, screen is already hard protected.

Anyway its alway in its leather case, I also use a stationary case after viewing. Protects the A2 just nice.

[colinmcc]

After ruling out a few other outside bets, I was left with the same decision.

I went for the A2 over the AV500 even though it was a lot harder to get hold of in the UK.

Key reasons:

1. Battery life.
2. Flexibility - CODEC handling, text files (ebooks were a VERY nice bonus)
3. Support. As already mentioned several times, firmware updates are more frequent for the A2 than pretty much any other gadget I've ever seen!

Recording was never a big factor for me. I believe the Archos is the better machine here but it's not something I'm ever likely to use.

Not that the Archos is a piece of rubbish (it was my second choice after all) but the A2 just shaved it for me.

[austinv]

a2 supports AC3, ogg, FLAC, and twice the battery life of the av500

av500 has a wireless remote, better video recording, and higher capacities

take your pic... the rest is a wash

[Gators300]

First of all, I want to thank those of you who responded. Some of those posts were well thought out and very articulate. Very helpful. For the person who suggested I may not end up using the recording feature, well, unfortunately that is not the case. I am a HUGE football, (american) fan. I plan on recording all of my team's games this upcoming season, so I want the best recording quality possible. Viewing will be limited pretty much to the A2, maybe on the computer, but not on a larger screen. So if there is little or no difference between the A2 and AV500 recording quality I would like to go with the A2. I know that at one point the A2 would record the 640x480 at 15fps. Is that still the case? I thought it may have been bumped up to 30fps ina firmware upgrade, but I am not sure. Could someone clarify this for me?

And while HD capacity is a big deal to me, I can work around it. The 30GB will be enough if it has to be. You are all correct about all of the extra features, which, admittedly I probably won't use, (PDF's and Word files) but I suppose they are nice to have just in case the day comes that I need that feature.

I guess it really comes down to the 100GB AV500 vs. the A2. Has anyone seen/held a 100GB AV500? Is it much bigger than the A2? If it's bigger, then I think it would be just out of my portability category. I already have a Nokia 9300 phone, which is heavy/big enough, (but I freakin LOVE it!!) so if I can cut down on size that's a plus.

So at this juncture I suppose it comes down to 1) recording quality and length of the recordings, (can A2 record indefinitely or use multiple files?) and 2) size vs. the 100GB AV500. I think the Cowon has the AV500 beat in many, many categories, but like I said, recording is a big deal to me. I also really like the idea of not having to use the add on peripheral to record with the A2.

Thanks for all of your help guys! Things are already clearing up for me!

Chris

[lukas89]

Hi :hi:

I saw the archos av500 100 gig vers. and yeah.. it is bigger!
about twice as fat as the cowon a2 i couldnt check about the weight becauseit was only a dummy.

I dont know if the archos has also a timeplaner where u can programm up to 10 records with the date, duration 'n' stuff like that.

well i dont know aubout the recording quality because i didnt used it since the first firmware (did it got betther??)

I think the archos is only a thing, that u leave in your livingroom because it looks so fragile

so its up to you!

mfg

lukas

[bobby stilly]

Hey Chris, sorry to hear about your dilemna but I guess the good the thing is that you'll end up with a good product either way!

Just to elaborate on the video recording issue. I'm not too sure of the FPS of the A2's video recording. Never seen that information anywhere! But what I can tell you is that the 360x272 resolution at 800kbps is the best quality you'll get from the A2. The other option would be 640x480 at 1Mbps. If you think about it, 640x480 is a WHOLE lot more resolution, for not a lot more bitrate. So it makes sense that the 360x272 at 800kbps is better.

As for watchability, the 360x272/800kbps setting is very watchable on the A2 screen. And with good sound quality too (if at 128/192kbps) except if you have the recording volume too high! I recommend a volume level of 5 (out of 10 i think) otherwise it becomes distorted.

On the PC screen, at 100% resolution, this video setting is also very watchable. It's not perfect, and clearly not DVD quality, but it retains a lot of the sharpness and detail. Viewed full-screen on your PC, it will show clear jaggy-ness and artefacts, but remain good enough in my book.

I would love Cowon to offer something like 1.5Mbps at 360x272 resolution, as I feel the bitrate-boost would really benefit the quality. I'm holding out for this option!

I think the AV500 may go all the way up to 2.5Mbps, which is impressive. But the firmware updates (sorry to harp on!) for the A2 are unbelievable at times! I think daily for a few revisions.

Hope this explains a few more things concerning the video recording.

rob

[Nightwing]

Not sure if this will help.

Just took two trips back east. Had the following loaded on a A2 30GB HD.

Video
SIZE 10GB total on HD
XIVD Mostly 230MB per TV shows & 460MB per Movie some being 2:40 minutes.
Movies ran WideScreen with TV shows mostly being 4:3.
All compress and resised to either fill out 480 or 272.
13 movies { Some animation some live }
1 trailler
12 TV shows { UFO Series Anime etc }
2 Music Video { 1 30 minute, 1 1minute }

Music
SIZE 3.18GB total on HD
1054 Songs At MPG 128 encoding

By the count on the A2 I have free 15.2 GB on it with this above.

Here is the A2 sitting on a tray table playing back Thunderbirds EPS 1: Traped In The Sky. Plane window 1/2 closed.
http://nightwing.smugmug.com/photos/68755067-L.jpg

Good luck with your choise!

[Krelyan]

I also was deciding between the two players. As far as video recording goes, the A2 has caught up a bit on the AV500, but is still not quite as good. Firmware for the A2 has added timers and bumped the fps. I believe the AV500 can record 640x480 at 2.5mbps, while the A2 is still at 1.0mbps. Afaik, this is currently the only real gap between the two players in this department. I went with the A2 for the FM radio, better audio and easier GUI. And it was cheaper (although you do get a free remote for the AV500). They're both great devices although having to deal with the AV500's bare screen would make me a bit nervous.

[epaludo]

Originally Posted by Gators300

I guess it really comes down to the 100GB AV500 vs. the A2. Has anyone seen/held a 100GB AV500? Is it much bigger than the A2? If it's bigger, then I think it would be just out of my portability category. I already have a Nokia 9300 phone, which is heavy/big enough, (but I freakin LOVE it!!) so if I can cut down on size that's a plus.

Didn't you read kaptaink post. He said that the AV500 is smaller than the A2.
I do held both players in my hand (as my post says). The size is almost the same with the archos a little, just a little smaller.
A2 sizes = 5.2 by 3.1 by 0.9 inch
AV500 sizes = 4.9 by 3 by 0.7 inch

This sizes are for both 30 gigs players. The 100 gigs archos must be a lot thicker than that ...

[Gators300]

See, what concerns me about video recording is that I will be using it for sports. There is lots of fast movement and sweeping camera angles in football games, and capturing all of that is really my top priority. Would it be at all possible for someone to post anything they have recorded with the highest recording setting? It doesn't have to be a long clip, just so I can see how it looks. Thanks in advance if anyone can do that, (or provide a link to someone who already has).

The A2 is winning in every feature other than HD size and recording it seems. I really like the overall look of the A2 as well, and the fact that the screen is covered. Ahh!! I hate these decisions!

Chris

[Krelyan]

If you want REALLY good quality recording I don't think either the AV500 or the A2 will cut it.